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Forum:Disambiguating carapacians
So this has come up a few times in the past so we really need to clear it, how to disambiguate the carapacians. Starting with Jack Noir, as the carapacian with the most seen iterations. Following disambiguation guidelines the page currently deemed the most important to have the title is B1 Jack who has the default title with the disambiguation page itself being disambiguated. B2 Jack is currently located at Jack Noir (post-scratch), A2 Jack avoids the need to be disambiguated by having a different name entirely, and Uracil Jack only gets a brief mention on the disambiguation page. There have been a number of different suggestions in the past so I'll quickly list and explain them. *Move "Jack Noir (post-scratch)" to "Jack Noir (B2)", not only does it serve as a shorter title but it better explains exactly which session the Jack is from, especially since Spades Slick is equally a post-scratch Jack Noir. **Done. *Create a generic Jack Noir page, this Jack Noir page would in essence supersede the disambiguation page and serve as a page to describe the template Jack character plus summarise the various iterations of Jack, including those who lack their own pages (like Uracil Jack). *Rename B1 Jack, to "Bec Noir" or "Jack Noir (B1)", I have to mention my opposite to this flat out, given this iteration of Jack is what most people would be looking for and was the main villain for a large part of the story I have to say he is the most important Jack and should be placed at the default title. Likewise "Bec Noir" is only a moniker used from partway through Act 5 Act 2 onwards when Jack himself was around since Act 3, and even than he is continued to be called Jack by everyone, the only time "Bec Noir" is used is by Hussie in the 3rd recap and even than he reverts back to calling him Jack. **In any case there is no real reason to rename B1 Jack unless the generic Jack page is made and replaces the disambiguation. Even in this situation I believe that B1 Jack would continue to be of higher importance. Apart from Jack of course there is the other agents/members of the Midnight Crew. Obviously the A2 versions are fine with their alternate aliases but there is still the B1 and B2 versions. And of course unlike Jack none of them have been seen in the cherub session. *First dealing with Hearts Boxcars - There is so little to say about him in B1 and B2 (given his early deaths) that he is easily covered by a single page and needs no disambiguations. Really his page could be expanded to also serve as a generic HB page. *Courtyard Droll - While there is more to say about CD, there still isn't enough to really require a page split, but probably enough to make hypothetical separate pages have enough content (barely) to be worth having. *Draconian Dignitary - He is an interesting case, he enough information to be split, however unlike Jack, I would say the latter DD introduced is the more important one which should mean he would be given the default page and that B1 DD should be disambiguated. There still wouldn't be much need of a generic DD page as it could easily be covered and duplicated across the two different pages. The other carapacians that need to be looked at are of course the royalty, luckily all the major iterations of them have been given different titles so disambiguation isn't a problem. *Black King - Across all the sessions he has never been given much focus and like HB and CD easily exists as a single page. *Black Queen - The only iteration of her that needs a separate page is , which already exists. Apart from that her page could stand to be cleaned up. *White Queen - Currently her page is named Windswept Questant after the B1 iteration, however that page really mostly focuses on that iteration too, probably worth making a generic White Queen page to cover all the iterations and have Windswept Questant be solely about the B1 WQ. *White King - Currently his page is named Writ Keeper after the B1 iteration, while the page does mostly focus on him there could be more said about the generic White King and if such an article were to exist it would probably subsume Writ Keeper. Suggest moving the page back to White King and make it a generic White King page and just have Writ Keeper covered in it. OK I have rambled enough so if anyone has anything to say now is the time. - The Light6 (talk) 15:04, December 21, 2012 (UTC) :I'm incredibly sorry to keep you waiting, The Light6. I'm going through some tough times, but this is no place to talk about that. I'll briefly give you my thoughts on each carapacian now, in order. :*Jack Noir: I agree with you on the basis that B1 Jack Noir is one of the most central villains in the story. When searching for "Jack Noir", information about the character most commonly known as Jack Noir should be presented, especially for readers early in the story. "Bec Noir" is a suggestion that I'm embarrassed about, having used reverse logic in the past. It should be noted, the disambiguation page is hard to locate and not as functional as it could be. I think a generic page is definitely in order. :*Hegemonic Brute: Agreed compltely. A2 HB has his summary on the Hearts Boxcars page, as it should be. :*Courtyard Droll: Also agreed. There is more information on him than HB, especially B1 CD, but it's hardly worth splitting pages. In fact, I don't even think it's worth being ambiguous. I think the one that's most ambiguous is… :*Draconian Dignitary: I'll try to keep my mouth shut on it after this, but I'm still not sure B2 DD deserves an article. B2 Jack and him don't really have much more screen time than, say, B1 CD. Not to say they're as important to the plot as B1 CD, but still. On topic, the notion that B2 DD deserves the main "Draconian Dignitary" page is a move I didn't think about. I agree that B2 DD is more important to the story overall, but it may be confusing for readers early in the story (and may not even aware of the Scratch to direct themselves to the correct article) looking for B1 DD. Another concern is, if we create a separate article specifically for B1 DD, where will the information go if a U DD or A1 DD is introduced? I'm not trying to be difficult, but we need to make sure the wiki is accessible for everyone, and the concept of the Scratch makes it tough. :*Black King: Absolutely true. A2, B1, and obviously B2 BK have such little information within the course of Homestuck, there is no reason that the "basic" BK article cannot include them all. The same is true for all royalty, sans A2 BQ. :*Black Queen: Agreed again. Separating Snowman is justifiable due to her importance as a plot device. I think all the kings and queens' pages could use cleanup. :*White Queen: Agreed. This should not even be a question. :*White King: Agreed under the same idea. :Tried to make that fairly quick. Not sure if I succeeded or not, but there's my opinion. Thanks for bringing this into the public eye, The Light6. 01:06, December 23, 2012 (UTC) ::Since we basically agree on everything I'll leave everything at that and skip straight to DD. ::It has to be mentioned that the pages are already split, I think that means if another DD was introduced it would already cause trouble. If we were to go ahead and give Jack a generic page I think DD might have to be in line to get one too. ::That being said, the reason I called him an interesting case is because of the reasons you said, while the B2 one might be "more important" it is competing against chronological introduction which can cause a bunch of confusion. I suspect that the best option for him might be to disambiguate both the B1 and B2 iterations while leaving the disambiguation page (or generic page, if made) with the default title. :: The Light6 (talk) 02:03, December 23, 2012 (UTC)